Convergence of devices, or an ideal modern screen.

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27.08.2018 14:48:00
Cameraphones took everything they could from the cameras, leaving what was not used in the miniature dimensions of smartphones. Cameras took a little from smartphones, probably because of the inertia of the designers.
But imagine that the design of the device is not limited to the dimensions, it's more like a tablet or a phablet, and you can squeeze an inch matrix, removable objects (25-50-85mm) or zoom, add PASM modes and control the most important parameters - and here's the perfect the measure of our time! This device is doomed to success, because it will combine the best features of camera phones and cameras, using a sufficiently advanced node " Objective sensor " and powerful processors and gadget software.
Most likely, the price of such a device will be quite high, but its advantages are undeniable - a combination of modern technologies and high image quality!
 

27.08.2018 14:52:00

But imagine that the design of the device is not limited to the dimensions, it is more like a tablet or a tablet, and you can cram an inch matrix, removable objects (25-50-85mm) or zoom, add PASM modes and control the most important parameters - and here you are the perfect gauge of our time!

Panasonic CM1 / CM10. It did not take off.

27.08.2018 15:24:00

Panasonic CM1 / CM10. It did not take off. Perhaps, because there is no phone and no zoom, and the quality of the optics is not up to par. That is, Panas turned out to be under-phone and under-camera. Gt; . . mini-conclusion: it seems that the developers of the company did not take the model seriously enough. Already for two key parameters, the quality of voice transmission and the quality of images, the camera camera in question is working with serious reservations. Probably, many users have already stopped reading at this stage, as you can honestly say: for its current cost, the Lumix DMC-CM1 is not good enough. . . Panasonic really could combine several devices in one. True, the final result is seriously heated and absolutely not happy with the indicators of autonomy. It looks like from their " parents " he received not so much dignity as disadvantages. . . (from the review)

27.08.2018 15:41:00

Perhaps because there is no phone and no zoom, and the quality of the optics is not up to par.
Zoom and optics are in the Sony QX100, clings to any modern phone or tablet, but it's also not very popular.

This device is doomed to success, because it will combine the best features of camera phones and cameras, using a sufficiently advanced node " Objective sensor " and powerful processors and gadget software.
This produces a hybrid of potatoes and tomatoes on the basis of potato tops from the roots of the tomato - as the phone is too cumbersome, as the camera is too unergonomic. Advantages in comparison with the two devices separately, the device is provided for failure, which is actually confirmed by the near-zero demand for such garbage repeatedly issued by different companies.

27.08.2018 15:52:00

That's why I propose to * cross * with the camera not a phone, but a tablet or a large tablet, that is, a device that is certainly a large device, and the lens should not stick out of it (like Sony's), but mounted in a case like modern double camera phones. The thickness of the 7-inch tablet is enough for this.

27.08.2018 15:58:00

and a tablet or a large phablet, that is, a known large device, and the lens should not stick out of it (like Sony's), but is mounted in a case like modern double camera phones. The thickness of the 7-inch tablet is enough for this.
And what will this result in the end? Zoom for the inch matrix does not fit, the viewfinder does not fit, keep (when shooting) uncomfortable, the battery fights fast, weighs a lot, does not fit into your pocket, and the smartphone does not replace it due to mass dimensions.

27.08.2018 16:05:00

Zoom-like with dual camera phones. The viewfinder is a large screen.
Keep the tablet handy, the battery is large, weighs a pound, keep the pocket wider.

27.08.2018 16:20:00
The viewfinder is a large screen.

On a sunny day, the screen size does not help.

weighs a pound
This smartphone will have to still carry with them, because to use it instead of a 10-inch boar is distorted on the fan. Well, an inch compact weighs 300 grams and at the same time it will outperform such a monster in all respects. Yes, even a croz-bzk camera gets into a penny a half. The question arises - what pluses of such an abstract device specifically in what? This is approximately how to replace the steering wheel in the car with a touch screen to put there gadget software.

First you need to clearly imagine the target audience and proceed primarily from the problem that the device solves for them. Plansets then no one really uses it, the addition of quality cameras to the weather will not do. Marginal combination of the incongruous may cause admiration for a pair of geeks, but it will not be sold exactly.

27.08.2018 16:35:00

I'm on the road, short:
I watch a lot of tablets and tablets around the world, and on tour. trips and at home. Target audience - those who have few opportunities for compacts and smartphones. A 6-7 " The textbook lies in a large pocket, checked.

27.08.2018 18:20:00


Convergence Manufacturers who year can not realize the ability to connect the tablet to the camera via HDMI so that it can be used as a large (compared to what the camera) monitor for video. Crafts in the form of a connection on vi-fi / bluetooth because of lags and quality, too, do not solve the problem as yet. And this is not the only option for photo-video equipment - it would be possible to connect a Stick PC to the tablet, but no, no one does HDMI-IN, the same space technologies, NASA, the Templars, etc.

27.08.2018 19:34:00

Voluntarism

28.08.2018 9:12:00
:
Convergence Manufacturers who year can not realize the ability to connect the tablet to the camera via HDMI so that it can be used as a large (compared to what the camera) monitor for video. Crafts in the form of a connection on vi-fi / bluetooth because of lags and quality, too, do not solve the problem as yet. And this is not the only option for photo and video equipment: Stick PC could be connected to the tablet, but no, no one does HDMI-IN, it's space technology, NASA, templars, etc.
HDMI is a proprietary connector. For HDMI IN you need to pay extra. deductions to rights holders.

:
There is zoom and optics in the Sony QX100, it clings to any modern phone or tablet, but it's not very popular either.
This is actually a discrete camera with a separate battery that needs to be charged separately, it clings to it, but it's clumsy - you need to do a lot more than simply change the lens on the camera. Plus, the display lag through the wifi will be much more than on the wires.

:
This produces a crossing of potatoes and tomatoes on the basis of potato tops from the roots of the tomato
Nothing of the sort.
In the camera and smartphone almost all the elements are common:
lithium-ion battery (one of the most overall nodes) is there and there
high-resolution display
touchscreen (even a watering can added to its FF BRC, and after all the others).
processor

memory slot SD (mikroSD)
connector micro USB
connector HDMI
connector 3. 5 mm
. .
What's in the phone but it's not in the camera - it's a SIM card slot (it's small) and a cellular module that is placed on a tiny chip, thanks to modern technology.
There are more physical buttons in the camera than in the phone, but this is also due to the strength of 2% of the camera's weight.

28.08.2018 9:56:00
Zoom and optics are in the Sony QX100, clings to any modern phone or tablet, but also not very popular.
This is actually a discrete camera with a separate battery that needs to be charged separately, it clings to it, but it's clumsy - you need to do a lot more than simply change the lens on the camera. Plus, the display lag through the wifi will be much more than on the wires.

.
Sony Alpha QX1 The option is better yet. You do not put anything into the smartphone. All small matrixes - in fact, pampering and for photos are not suitable.
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And in the first message, the author actually described some kind of ryx (Sony RX) with a larger display (which she does not need) and a Gsm module (which she does not need, incidentally, in the US, to have one more SIM card for the camera, straight kapets, as expensive, the pike is huge and the phone does not replace .And, by the way, even without all this magnificence, the puffins are overdrawn.

28.08.2018 11:57:00

Nothing of the sort.
In the camera and smartphone, almost all the elements are common:

The notebook and phone also have almost all the elements in common. But that is not particularly combined. The attempts were of course, but in practice the clownery. This is the first, second - it's about crosses cameras not so much with telephones as with large and heavy tablets, i.e., compactness is meant worse than just cameras. In return - a large display and. . . and all

28.08.2018 12:28:00

In return, the camera will receive the capabilities of a camera phone. For example, an artificial bokeh in portrait mode.

28.08.2018 12:39:00

Artificial bokeh in portrait mode
In the first message, it was like talking about high quality images? What kind of artificial side can we talk about? This is an emulation of the effect from a large matrix to a shallow one for the sake of pocket compactness, a compromise and not an advantage.

28.08.2018 16:06:00

Of course, a compromise, but our whole life consists of compromises. People like it, that's what's important.

28.08.2018 22:50:00
Let's close the stupid topic. For permanent socks, the camera should weigh no more than 200 grams and fit in the pocket of a female blouse. For a good movie / photographing, a device with a large matrix is required and it is taken only for the duration of the photographing session.

29.08.2018 2:14:00

And how do millions of people constantly (or often) carry cameras heavier than two hundred grams? At least in tourist trips. A typical travel camera is not a small thing at all.

29.08.2018 10:28:00

And how do millions of people constantly (or often) carry cameras heavier than two hundred grams? At least in tourist trips.

But nothing at all. Most of them are on smartphones, another part is on tablets .

29.08.2018 14:05:00

Those who use tablets will like it.

29.08.2018 19:32:00
:

Those who use tablets will like it.
They are few, the manufacturer is hardly interested in this niche. However, technologies are developing, individual manufacturers are just about to appear, which on the printer will be able to print a small series without a brand, without quality, without profit - but satisfying the requests of friends and relatives. Only here it will not be an IDEAL ((

29.08.2018 19:58:00

Everyone has his own ideal.
I, for example, zoom with 24mm just do not need nafig, and most want even wider. I and 10 MP have a lot of pictures, but manufacturers sell 20.
And what should I do with my ideal. . .

30.08.2018 10:20:00
30. 08. 2018 07: 47: 27 | Re [Mozes]:
Do you mean Panas SM?

No, Samsung Galaxy NX . Mixture of the tablet and BZK.
https: // www. androidcentral. com / sites / androidcentral. ... g_galaxy_nx_2. jpg

31.08.2018 6:22:00
:

Nothing of the sort.
In the camera and smartphone, almost all elements are common:

The laptop and phone also have almost all the elements in common. But that is not particularly combined.
So under the phone, you mean a smartphone, and this is initially a hybrid of a computer and a phone. By smartphone, by the way (except the cheapest) you can connect usb keyboard, mouse, external hard drive, flash drive, printer. . . you can even run a web server on it. . . this is a hybrid.

31.08.2018 7:38:00
Do you not understand what I was writing about? This is an integrated triple camera, in which the lens does not protrude from the body (or almost). Why reference to this bulky device?
 

31.08.2018 8:39:00
Do you not understand what I was writing about? This is an integrated triple camera, in which the lens does not protrude from the body (or almost). Why reference to this bulky device?
This is a tablet with an APS-C matrix. What is wrong with it? Even evi is.

A tablet from the smartphone than is different, so that the processor is weaker and that's it? The size of the screen? 7 inches is a tablet or phone? And 8 inches? And in a pocket fits.

31.08.2018 8:57:00

Those who use tablets will like it.

This is unlikely. The increase in price by half and thickness five times is unlikely to anyone like it.

31.08.2018 9:03:00

. . . What is wrong with it? . .
The lens sticks out like a horse horseradish! Look at how smart a lens is hidden, despite the fact that the case is flat. A tablet is thicker than a smartphone, there and the lens for an inch frame can fit. All that is needed is three small lenses 25-50-85 efr. Or two nozzles on the built-in turret. But not such a sticking horseradish. Well, is the thickness fivefold? Then the cameras-inch should be very thick!

31.08.2018 9:55:00

three small lenses 25-50-85 efr
A fix for 85 for an inch matrix will not fit into any one of the plates. Nozzles-teleconverters multiply the quality by 0. Interchangeable lenses on inch matrixes are not needed by anyone, this stage has already been passed by mankind. Slightly less than all Wishlist in this topic are either mutually exclusive or require violation of the laws of physics.

Is the thickness really five-fold? Then the cameras-inch should be very thick!
Millimeters 40. But the camera is small in width and height, and a tablet of this thickness is tin.

31.08.2018 12:28:00

Is thickness really five? Then the cameras-inch should be very thick! Fourth Rix - 41 mm, Samsung Tab S2 eight-inch - 5. 6 mm. Not even five times, but seven times .

31.08.2018 14:21:00
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three small lens 25-50-85 EGF
Fix for 85 inch array in any plate will not fit. Nozzles-teleconverters multiply the quality by 0. Interchangeable lenses on inch matrixes are not needed by anyone, this stage has already been passed by mankind. Slightly less than all Wishlist in this topic are either mutually exclusive or require violation of the laws of physics.
Everything has been invented for a long time: a monoblock lens-matrix + tablet or that is smaller. Moreover, the candy bar is easily unfastened and in the pocket.
The disadvantage is one: there are no advantages over the same Samsung NX mini and similar individual cameras, which do not require the presence of an idiotic tablet accessory with comparable dimensions.

31.08.2018 17:43:00

Any prefix will reduce the demand due to inconvenience and cumbersomeness. And it is larger than a similar built-in node.
Optics must be built-in. It is strange that the 85mm portrait does not fit in the case, while 50 efr in a thin smartphone fits. . . and here the body is twice as thick.
. . . . . . ,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
But even if you persuaded me, the second question remained unresolved - Which of the properties of camera phones is useful for borrowing cameras?

31.08.2018 17:55:00

while 50 efr in a thin smartphone fits. . . and here the body is twice as thick.
So in smartphones, wide-angle cameras with a sensor 1/2. 3, and those that with 50 efr generally 1/3. 6, and if it is about an inch, then by simple calculations, you can estimate what is fit.

31.08.2018 18:02:00
. . . those with 50 EFR generally 1/3. 6.. .
That is, you think that 50fr there only at the expense of a reduced frame?

31.08.2018 18:58:00

at the expense of a reduced frame?
Not a frame, but a matrix. The smaller size of the matrix has a smaller working length, which makes it possible to have a smaller thickness of the overall design.

31.08.2018 20:00:00

And what is the other, smaller matrix for? Can I just use a crop, shooting the same lens on the same?
Do you have a link to this information? It's painful cheeky deception if you're right.

31.08.2018 20:56:00

The smaller size of the matrix has a smaller working length, which allows for a smaller thickness of the overall structure. And moreover, a small matrix can be placed in the camera with an edge, and the lens can be hidden inside the tablet. So they used to do with cameras, when they were chasing the reduction in the thickness of the camera.

31.08.2018 21:04:00
Yes, I remember Panasonic so.
Just do not want to deteriorate the quality of the reduction matrix.

31.08.2018 21:25:00
[

do not want to degrade the quality of a decrease
matrix So the difference here is not at times, and quality, as such, does not depend only on the size of the matrix itself, but also the pixel size, the implementation of strapping, software, and so on. E., So here not all is unequivocal.
There are very few manufacturers information on the physical characteristics of smartphone matrices, meeting on the network does not always inspire confidence, so do not fixate yourself on these tsyfers, but try to take pictures, and then make a verdict.

31.08.2018 22:15:00

The pixel size is tied to the size of the matrix and, other things being equal, a larger matrix is preferable.

01.09.2018 0:25:00

other things being equal, a large matrix is preferable.

This is where?
Well, yes, and that, it does not physically climb into the device, for any compromise is needed, we in practice have it.

01.09.2018 4:12:00
, while 50 efr in a thin smartphone fits. . . and here the body is twice as thick. Yeah, and to narrowly remove the matrix, it's cut. It is not just not an inch, as you wanted, it is muscular, tiny, milimpic. I understand on the first message that you want a device that combines the shortcomings of smartphones and cameras, right? The situation is such that the inch matrix with any EFD is already too thick for a smartphone.
Buy yourself a convenient photo bag, in which you will carry a large camera, a bottle of water, accessories, have a place for luggage - this option is doomed to success.

01.09.2018 4:23:00
The size of the pixel is tied to the size of the matrix and, other things being equal, a larger matrix is preferable to t. And the pixel size is larger.
And where did you get that the matrix has a larger size, the pixel size is larger?

01.09.2018 5:04:00
No reply,


01.09.2018 13:43:00
:
Fourth Rix - 41 mm, Samsung Tab S2 eight-inch - 5. 6 mm. Not even five times, but seven times .
And I do not care for tab. My Chinese tablet has 10. 8 mm in thickness, and I do not feel like less.

:
And where did you get that the matrix has a larger size, the pixel size is larger? [/ q]
Well, it turns out for some reason that this is so. In the small-matrix pixel size of 1-1. 5 microns is already typical, and FF matrices with 3 micron pixels and less in ordinary chambers do not exist.
Reading the signal is done by the circuits along the periphery of the matrix; ie, the signal from the pixel should run from the middle to the edge. Therefore, the grid of wires for a large matrix should be thicker, and they " eat off " Place at the photodiode and transistors in pixel.

:
Fix the 85 for an inch matrix in any tablet will not fit.
Why? 85 mm EGF is a physical 30 mm. At a moderate aperture (f / 4) this will be a lens unit with a size of 8 mm x 8 mm. You can still reduce the thickness, and can be decomposed into two cylinders 4 mm thick.
Or you can make a mirror-liznuyu design, so as not to leave.
:
The teleconverters are multiplying the quality by 0.
So, interchangeable lenses also require that the afocal nozzles are bad.
In addition to quality, afocal teleconverters provide an unaffected use of the lens area or require an additional transfer system. A little less than all the Wikilians in this topic are either mutually exclusive or require violation of the laws of physics.
ZOKONS OF PHYSICS, as without their mention!
:
Millimeters 40. But the camera is small in width and height, and a tablet of this thickness is hard.
is yes, but the cameras have zoom.

:

at the expense of a reduced frame?
Not a frame, but a matrix. The smaller size of the matrix has a smaller working length, which makes it possible to have a smaller thickness of the overall design.
Damn, there is no working segment, PO is the distance between the mounting plane of the interchangeable lens and the image. And there is no bayonet. The smaller size of the matrix with an equal viewing angle means less focal length.

:

The size of the pixel is tied to the size of the matrix and, other things being equal, a larger matrix is ​​preferable to t. And the pixel size is larger.
A signal from several small pixels can be averaged and obtained almost the same as from a large pixel.

A large matrix is ​​preferred for other reasons. For an equal image by diffraction, the signal-to-noise ratio and the GRIP to a small matrix, it is necessary to make a lens with a larger light-fiber, which is more complicated in correcting aberrations and the assembly requires more accurate.

:

. . . What is wrong with it? . .
The lens sticks out like a horse horseradish! Look at how smart a lens is hidden, despite the fact that the case is flat.
Are you talking about the Galaxy NX? So there you can put a pancake lens. But the overall handle and the hump-finder.

01.09.2018 14:58:00

That's right!

02.09.2018 4:57:00
:
No reply,



Addition of 01. 09. 2018 05: 06:.

Ie You do not have the information right, I understand your confusion?

:
:
And where did you get that the matrix has a larger size, the pixel size is larger?
Well, it turns out for some reason that this is so. In the small-matrix pixel size of 1-1. 5 microns is already typical, and FF matrices with 3 micron pixels and less in ordinary chambers do not exist.
Reading the signal is done by circuits along the periphery of the matrix; ie, the signal from the pixel should run from the middle to the edge. Therefore, the grid of wires for a large matrix should be thicker, and they " eat off " a place. . . [/ q]

How does it work? Area divided by the number? So it's density, not size.

If the size of the photosensitive area is the same in the matrix and the phone, and the larger the area of ​​the collecting lens is larger, you can distinguish it?

By the noise? With old FF cameras, parity will be. So it was so far BSI could not do on a large matrix.

02.09.2018 14:21:00

My Chinese tablet has 10. 8 mm in thickness, and I do not want to.

Do you want more? 41 mm in thickness, like that of the rox?
 

02.09.2018 15:57:00
There is enough information. There is no time to respond to podkovyryki.
. . . To find the size of one pixel, it is enough to take the digits for either side, divide the millimeters into pixels and multiply the resulting quotient by 1000 to translate the result into micrometers. We obtain the formula: n = X / A x 1000, where
n is the pixel size in micrometers;
X - the linear dimension of the matrix in millimeters on one side;
A- the number of pixels on the corresponding side. . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
It's strange that the second question was left unattended: - Which of the properties of camera phones is useful for borrowing cameras?
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Convergence of devices, or an ideal modern screen.

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