PNG or TIFF? what to store intermediate result?

Pages: 1

02.07.2012 23:18:00
I apologize for any superboyan, but something in the search did not find a specific answer. .

What better to keep the intermediate image file (originally JPEG), subjected to editing? it is clear that both formats are lossless, but the results of conservation somehow turn out different. . . t. e. If I save one source first in PNG, then TIFF - then both are converted to BMP - the files are different! In theory, they should be the same, because lossless. I suspect what's happening is some color space conversion or something like that. . .
 

03.07.2012 0:14:00
Looking for what you store them and for what you use.
Those with whom I work in a serious way - in the PSD (for anyway at some stage want to save with adjustment layers, etc.). A final version - JPG with space to sRGB not already soared over the color.

03.07.2012 11:10:00
psd not an option - I do not work in Photoshop.
thing is that I use a separate program for the resize (lancsoz3) and edited in the other, where there is no filter.
therefore need an intermediate lossless format common standard, such as bmp, png and etc.
well, and besides, I do not have layers. . . .

possible options png, tiff, bmp, tga

03.07.2012 11:32:00
quote:
:
What better to keep the intermediate image file (originally JPEG), subjected to editing? it is clear that both formats are lossless, but the results of conservation somehow turn out different. . . t. e. If I save one source first in PNG, then TIFF - then both are converted to BMP - the files are different! In theory, they should be the same, because lossless. I suspect what's happening is some color space conversion or something like that. . .

if the source file dzhipeg, the information already there will not increase because all these intermediate lossless formats lose any sense, especially since you are not running a shop and therefore the intermediate file with the layers you do not need to be stored. Also in dzhipege and store. Why
eventually convert in BMP for me just do a puzzle. . .

03.07.2012 12:44:00

if the source file dzhipeg, the information already there will not increase because all these intermediate lossless formats lose all meaning
lose. disk imaging certainly not increase, but the second-third-fifth to tenth resave in zhipeg oh so diminish. . .

03.07.2012 13:36:00
Yeah, diminish. so it is better uncompressed format, ie *. BMP, if it is of course necessary.

03.07.2012 14:54:00


Look what options formats TIFF, PNG, BMP enabled by default to the program (you report lancsoz3), from which you retain the original, and then again in the envelope and BMP (why?... Only to compare what-if ?). Question Looking for what you store them and what will be using also remains in force. Not knowing your entire production chain, image features and the ultimate goal of treatment is unlikely to be something to recommend. But if there is the ability and desire to understand for a meaningful decision, download the files to analyze them in Photoshop and compare how they differ from each other. There is a layer blending mode "difference" (Difference). If all of a sudden this is not possible and no other means of image analysis are not available to you, then take a resolute decision as an internal standard for themselves. For example, TIFF, and the question is closed. And then to work within your decision.

03.07.2012 16:42:00
quote:
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Yeah, diminish. so it is better uncompressed format, ie *. BMP, if it is of course necessary.
Why? There compressed losless formats. TIFF for example, is quite effective and versatile support layers, the picture does not spoil. Its usually used. Do not understand where the author had this question.

03.07.2012 23:12:00

It does not matter in your case which of the lossless-formats to choose from. About. bmp, though forgotten already. . .
your problems, probably related to the color profiles.

04.07.2012 0:38:00

Why? There compressed losless formats. TIFF for example, is quite effective and versatile support layers, the picture does not spoil. Its usually used. Do not understand where the author had this question.
My question is simple - why save to TIFF gives an excellent save to PNG by the result? Type the two lossless.



Thanks for the reply.

Look what options formats TIFF, PNG, BMP enabled by default to the prog
PNG - interlaced / non-interlaced, optimized / non-optimized palette (as I understand it affects in the case of 256 instead of 16 million colors).
TIFF - 5 choices of compression (LZW, Huffman, etc) - like size only affects and color channels - RGB / CMYK. Is it? ? ?


then again and envelopes in BMP (why?... For comparison purposes only or what?).
yes, only for binary comparison. File headers identical size and resolution too, but different in content. I usually keep the result in PNG, but now thought - maybe it is necessary to TIFF.

Not knowing your entire production chain, image features and the ultimate goal of treatment is unlikely to be something to recommend.
OK, maybe it was necessary to start with this.

chain is simple:

1) Get the JPEG-photos from the camera
2) Edit (I use Jasc PSP7) - trimming, cropping, rotating line on the horizon for several. degrees, and if necessary
m 3) is stored in the intermediate lossless (eg BMP)
4) Resize FastStone through to the desired size and "Save as..." it is in PNG for download in the social. network.

But if there is the ability and desire to understand for a meaningful decision, download the files to analyze them in Photoshop and compare how they differ from each other. There is a layer blending mode "difference" (Difference).
Visually, I honestly do not see the difference, so most likely it is minimal (in the least significant bits of the pixel). Just want to understand why binary files are different. Most likely thing to distinguish the color transformation. As far as I know is not stored in JPEG RGB and some other representation, which while maintaining a lossless lost (?).

04.07.2012 10:14:00
I was immediately killed by the line "1) Get the JPEG-photos from the camera." How many copies have already broken, how many articles written, but all to no avail! From the camera, my dear, you need to get the source code! Ie. RAW-format, which are then stored in PNG, TIFF, and so on. D. Why create unnecessary problems themselves? The horror! Do not write things on the forums: JPEG-GET PHOTOS from the camera. It sounds scary! It's like a death sentence! I think there are going to people who are not in any way obtained from the camera JPEG, unlike you. Teach materiel, I meant to say, work in Photoshop, like all normal people.

04.07.2012 11:09:00
quote:
:

My question is simple - why save to TIFF gives an excellent save to PNG by the result? Type the two lossless.


unless PNG lossless?

04.07.2012 12:17:00
quote:
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unless PNG lossless?
seems yes.

quote:
:
if I save one source first in PNG, then TIFF - then both are converted to BMP - the files are different! In theory, they should be the same, because lossless. I suspect what's happening is some color space conversion or something like that. . .
Rather, it is. But
itself described the process looks quite delusional.

04.07.2012 13:01:00

I was immediately killed by the line "1) Get the JPEG-photos from the camera"
shh, quietly. . . not all cameras have saved in RAW, it's time. I just like JPEG.

04.07.2012 13:16:00


I advise you this - ask your question on

http: // club. foto. ru / forum / 6 /

live there steep-experts masters of everything. Maybe some of them here and looks . . . but rarely.

Better yet directly Shadrin Alexey

http: // shadrin. rudtp. ru /

Oh, he is sure to get hold of you all the details. But most likely after a visit to his site issue will disappear by itself


04.07.2012 13:33:00
Who tried a small JPEG picture (512x384, 93393 bytes) stored in
  1. BMP (24 bit, 589 878 bytes)
  2. PNG (24 bit, the maximum compression, without filters, 450,997 bytes)
  3. TIFF (24 bit, uncompressed RGB, 590,912 bytes)
  4. TIFF (24 bit, LZW, RGB, 279,464 bytes)
then received both PNG and TIFF and resave in BMP, and then compared the byte BMP "direct preobrzovaniya" with BMP obtained from PNG and TIFF.
As a result of the "direct" BMP and BMP derived from both coincided TIFF, and BMP, PNG derived from something different from them

04.07.2012 13:34:00

What were the color spaces?

04.07.2012 13:39:00

What were the color spaces?
finish in the previous post
PS experimented through FastStone
PPS in the attachment "experimental" I've found
PPPS and among other things, both TIFF-and helped to keep from the original EXIF ​​JPEG-and

04.07.2012 13:40:00
quote:
:

What were the color spaces?
finish in the previous post
not seen .
 

04.07.2012 14:47:00

As I understand it, BMP and PNG can use only one color scheme - RGB, TIFF and also CMYK, YCbCr and other (Scheme CIELab looks cool - the yellow box in the picture suddenly became green). And what color space uses the JPEG from the camera? Still, it was he - the source.

04.07.2012 14:48:00

Rather, it is not in the color schemes and color spaces. From
camera, I think, is sRGB.

04.07.2012 14:55:00
And not
YCbCr? sRGB way in FastStone no reason. . .

However, the file to upload still have to be stored in PNG - other options lossless Contact simply does not support.

So this circuit hike:

1) edit the picture and save it in TIFF
2) through FastStone resize to the size you want and save it in PNG

04.07.2012 14:57:00
quote:
:

And not YCbCr?
Hardly.
quote:
However, the file to upload still have to be stored in PNG - other options lossless Contact simply does not support.
And why lossless? Do jpeg, he and the size will be less.

quote:
:
So this circuit hike:

1) edit the picture and save it in TIFF
2) through FastStone resize to the size you want and save it in PNG
not when editing immediately resize and save to jpeg .

04.07.2012 15:05:00

And why lossless? Do jpeg, he and the size will be less.
To minimize losses. Contact us in any will pinch your photo in JPEG, so let it be original and not pinched already shrugged file.

not when editing immediately resize and save it in jpeg.
The program I use poor settings to resize. . . Only Bilinear and Bicubic, sample the late 90's. Lancsoz3 better. Therefore, the export business.

conducting an experiment - the same picture resize bikubikom editor and FastStone, then discharged both PNG file into contact. The size of the converted JPEG Lancsoz3-PNG Kb was several more. From which concluded that the information in this reduction of pictures saved more.

04.07.2012 15:15:00
quote:
:

And why lossless? Do jpeg, he and the size will be less.
To minimize losses. Contact us in any will pinch your photo in JPEG, so let it be original and not pinched already shrugged file.
and figs with him. Their size difference will not be.
quote:
not when editing immediately resize and save it in jpeg.
The program I use poor settings to resize. . . Only Bilinear and Bicubic, sample the late 90's. Lancsoz3 better. Therefore, the export business.
and figs with him. On the size difference will not be vkontaktika.
quote:
conducting an experiment - the same picture resize bikubikom editor and FastStone, then discharged both PNG file into contact. The size of the converted JPEG Lancsoz3-PNG Kb was several more. From which concluded that the information in this reduction of pictures saved more.
and figs with him. On the size difference will not be vkontaktika.

04.07.2012 16:37:00

And not YCbCr? sRGB way in FastStone no reason. . .
YCbCr used "inside" jpeg. But when decoded jpeg, RGB-values ​​are obtained (99% of the sRGB).

way sRGB in FastStone no reason. . .

It is impossible to imagine. The vast number of digital images using sRGB. Maybe there's just RGB naively called.

04.07.2012 17:48:00

Better yet directly Shadrin Alexey
better to write in RAS


no difference. PN-element generates the same files. A bug in the faststoune

code
 \ nD: \\ MyDoc \\ Downloads & gt; comp post_tif. bmp post_png. bmp \ nComparing post_tif. bmp and post_png. bmp. . . \ NFiles compare OK \ n \ nCompare more files (Y / N)? n \ n \ nD: \\ MyDoc \\ Downloads & gt; 

04.07.2012 19:28:00

chain is simple:

1) Get the JPEG-photos from the camera. . .


HMB in your chain has clearly unnecessary moves and transformations. I would have significantly reduced. Is not even possible that such a long chain like yours and leads to the distortion that you are confused then. Based on your point proposal is:
1) Get the JPEG-photos from the camera;
2) Edit in Jasc PSP7 and "Save as..." In it as a PNG to download in the social. network.

Thus, you get rid of the intermediate conversions and your chain original JPEG - & gt; Jasc PSP7 - & gt; BMP - & gt; FastStone - & gt; PNG turns into JPEG - & gt; Jasc PSP7 - & gt; PNG , but for the simplest of treatments can JPEG - & gt; FastStone - & gt; PNG .

Jasc PSP7 quite developed a program that allows you to make all the necessary treatment and I do not see any particular need to apply more and BMP format and FastStone at intermediate stages. Always store the source code and, if necessary, the target file. And if there was a need to temporarily store the intermediate result (for example, you have not finished the job, but it's time to turn off the computer), then save to TIFF, and upon completion of the work it can be removed. All subsequent processing of the file always starts with a source.

What As for the color profile, something to you which was in the beginning, for the purposes of placement in the social. networks (and to print if necessary) the file should be stored in a color profile sRGB. For a deeper understanding of the theory and differences of color profiles better to turn to guglyandeksu. Here is an interesting material http: // 0x99. ru /? topic_id = 54

05.07.2012 13:11:00

chain is simple:

1) Get the JPEG-photos from the camera
2) Edit (I use Jasc PSP7) - trimming, cropping, rotating line on the horizon for several. degrees, and if necessary
m 3) is stored in the intermediate lossless (eg BMP)
4) Resize FastStone through to the desired size and "Save as..." it is in PNG for download in the social. network.


You obviously light and effective ways to not look, why so much masochism if you have Photoshop (you even free package Elements is suitable for this purpose). Or religion does not allow to use products Adobe?

05.07.2012 16:18:00
quote:
:

chain is simple:

1) Get the JPEG-photos from the camera
2) Edit (I use Jasc PSP7) - trimming, cropping, rotating line on the horizon for several. degrees, and if necessary
m 3) is stored in the intermediate lossless (eg BMP)
4) Resize FastStone through to the desired size and "Save as..." it is in PNG for download in the social. network.


You obviously light and effective ways to not look, why so much masochism if you have Photoshop (you even free package Elements is suitable for this purpose). Or religion does not allow to use products Adobe?

I also do not know why you want to crop and vyryvnivaniya horizon apply what that party prog and even more so do not know why you use any intermediate Sohranki.
Photoshop for this lot will be. Much easier to all of this is done in ACDSee, and then will not need FastStone

05.07.2012 16:30:00
Is he FastStone all necessary actions can not perform?

09.07.2012 12:45:00

Much easier to all of this is done in ACDSee, and then FastStone will not need
For me as ACDSee also sided prog, which also contains a lot of excess
IMHO, all the tasks set for Ps + Lr + DPP

10.07.2012 8:31:00
TIFF Printer good

10.07.2012 10:26:00
quote:
:
TIFF print good
I specifically compared with 12 in the Jpeg quality FS: 20x30 on the difference can not be seen.

10.07.2012 11:19:00

agree. Specially conducted an experiment: take nef-ku, opened in fotozade retained as tif (with lzw) and jpg (12). Then tif and jpg imposed mode difference - there is no difference. Print (!).
And of course, save a fever or PSD - layers, masks, lossless re-saving and so on. D.

10.07.2012 11:24:00
Picasa and more!
 

09.07.2013 12:45:00

I am one of those who are not interested in Photoshop, I use ACDSee Pro 6. 2, I was quite satisfied with this program.
Intermediate save in TIFF, he freezes the point where I graduated, then in PNG for the Internet, it retains better quality than JPEG. A change in the image, while maintaining possible is because changing the color profile of this format. If I'm not mistaken, the sRGB not prescribed to PNG as a color profile from the picture-order and change the color scheme while maintaining the sRGB-shnogo of JPEG-in PNG. To TIFF-in the same way, you can assign a color profile.
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PNG or TIFF? what to store intermediate result?

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